RonJeffries
Ron Jeffries
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![[*]](./images/grass/default_icon.gif) posted on 01 Jun 07 at 09:58 AM |
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POLL: Pro, or Con?
Please enter your vote. Do you support the PRO position in the Agile 2.0 forum, the CON position, or other? If other, please comment in the forum.
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Joe
Joe Gee
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| posted on 01 Jun 07 at 11:06 AM |
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Is this for the frontline organization question, or for Brian's proposal in general?
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marick
Brian Marick
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| posted on 01 Jun 07 at 08:57 PM |
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Pro means you agree with the following:
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A first fork in the decision tree seems to be the answer to this question:
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RESOLVED: The Agile Alliance should explicitly focus on helping members of Agile teams succeed, leaving concern with the larger organization to
others.
“Members of the Agile team” is defined to be everyone who’d be expected to attend a team standup meeting: programmers, testers, user experience
designers, Scrum product owners or XP Customers, technical writers, and so on.
Pro or con?
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Put differently, Mike Feathers asked:
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the way you've been discussing the AA, it seems like you see it primarily as an organization for developers, testers, and analysts/customers.. the
people who are front line in development. Is that the case?
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The answer is yes. That's how I see it.
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The rest of the proposal depends on the answer to the poll.
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gdinwiddie
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| posted on 03 Jun 07 at 10:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by marick
Pro means you agree with the following:
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RESOLVED: The Agile Alliance should explicitly focus on helping members of Agile teams succeed, leaving concern with the larger organization to
others.
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Since I'm the contrary one who voted "other," I feel I should explain my vote.
Brian has almost convinced me that a focus solely on the "front line" would be beneficial. But not quite. I would be more
inclined to support a focus principally on the "front line" but including help in dealing with the higher levels of the
organization that are not the primary focus of the Agile Alliance. In other words, I'd like to see a gradual cut-off rather than a hard one.
I've mused a bit more on the topic at http://blog.gdinwiddie.com/2007/06/03/time-flies-like-an-arrow/
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mfeathers
Michael Feathers
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| posted on 04 Jun 07 at 02:58 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by marick
Put differently, Mike Feathers asked:
| Quote: |
the way you've been discussing the AA, it seems like you see it primarily as an organization for developers, testers, and analysts/customers.. the
people who are front line in development. Is that the case?
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The answer is yes. That's how I see it.
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Brian, I have a couple of questions: Why do you see it that way? Have you always seen it that way? If not, why change now?
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marick
Brian Marick
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| posted on 05 Jun 07 at 02:04 PM |
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Mike: I may have misinterpreted your question. Were you asking if I see the Agile Alliance as it is today as a organization for front line
people? If so, I answered the wrong question.
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debhart
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| posted on 06 Jun 07 at 09:17 AM |
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I too voted "other". I think it's a "self protective" dichotomy, not a helpful one. I understand Brian's position of "if we can't do one thing
well, how can we do more?"
However, working as a coach, I see the team/organization boundary as the current source of much trouble for teams, which distracts them from
excellence in the basic practices. They need help dealing with Product Management, Quality and other teams, and developers are often not well equipped
to know how to tackle this. Besides, they have other important work to do.
It seems to me that APLN is perhaps better placed to provide help with these circum-team and extra-team issues.
My proposal:
a) focus on teams as proposed in the PRO position,
a.1) including the promotion of qualified coaching
b) and commit to work hard on developing a seamless interface with APLN whereby teams or organizations can also get help for the team/organization
interface and the organizational ramifications of going Agile.
deb
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marick
Brian Marick
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| posted on 07 Jun 07 at 03:30 PM |
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The current vote is 7 pro, 7 con, 4 other. I'm thinking that means the proposal should be put to rest.
I'm halfway tempted to wonder if there's a niche between the APLN and my position. If the APLN is mainly focused on the executive suite (I don't
know if that's true), maybe there's room to intervene, Hartmann/Dinwiddie style, with the other people around the team?
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PaulOldfield1
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| posted on 10 Jun 07 at 06:11 AM |
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I'm with George Dinwiddie on this.
Further, I don't like silos, and I think if we leave out the execs, management, etc. then we're heading toward silos. Include the whole team.
Paul Oldfield
Capgemini, Telford UK
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RyanMartens
Ryan Martens
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| posted on 12 Jun 07 at 12:48 AM |
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Other
Segmentation and focus is such a tough process. I would like to see us focus in a different way.
I would suggest that we leave the job of educating the masses to the commercial analysts, vendors and web sites. I think we should play a role in
helping to organize the large conference, but primarily we should not focus on getting folks over the "Sucks" curve. (see my post in the "Why so
few posts" Topic Area)
Brian had a great proposal at our off-site in Portland; to split the conference in two. A large two-day conference focused on new folks, say 2000+
people. Followed by a smaller 500 person conference that required paper submission for entrance.
By focusing on teams that are working on "Kicking Ass," we can help define the vision and innovation in Agile while increasing the dedication of
teams and individuals to become experts. By showing the results of these teams, we can create the "pull" that will continue to drive the fire and
market. As a volunteer organization, we just do not have the mass to grow to reach, serve and support the wave of newbies. We should help give and
partner with commercial space to grow and harvest. (Spoken like a true vendor (I hope you can keep from discounting my position based on my affiliation. I really want to find a way for our grass roots organization to
continue to be successful by finding a "focus" that we can be great at. )
IMHO, we need to do this through expert conference support, great on-line communities, sponsored research and vendor partnerships. We need to drive
the vision, but not the missionary work.
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