jeffo
Jeff Olfert
Member
Posts: 5
Registered: 28 Sep 06
Member Is Offline
|
![[*]](./images/grass/default_icon.gif) posted on 15 Oct 06 at 01:58 AM |
|
|
Large Projects
I've heard it said many times, that agile does not work for large projects. I think if agile is to keep advancing, research needs to be done in this
area to find out if agile can be applied to large projects. I am currently taking a graduate level software engineering class, and the assumption is
that xp can not be applied to large projects. This does not seem correct to me, but I have no proof.
So, in my opinion some smarties out there need to show how xp can be applied to very large projects. Or not -- maybe the community does not care
about large projects.
Regards,
Jeff Olfert
|
|
|
IljaPreuss
Ilja Preuß
Member
Posts: 96
Registered: 05 Sep 06
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Member Is Offline
|
| posted on 15 Oct 06 at 02:46 AM |
|
|
The community does care, and actually *is applying* Agile approaches to large projects.
Take a look at Jutta Eckstein's work: http://www.jeckstein.de/agilebook/index.html - she is known for saying that "being Agile" is actually *especially* important
for large projects (even though it's also harder - I hope I don't misquote her...).
At ThoughtWorks they also have experience with large Agile projects - you might find some case studies online.
If you could help getting rid of this misconception, that would be great!
|
|
|
ajay.danait
Ajay Danait
New Member
Posts: 1
Registered: 20 Nov 06
Location: India
Member Is Offline
|
| posted on 20 Nov 06 at 10:53 AM |
|
|
Agile can be scale to any level, provided that it does not break any rules. I feel the agility in a project cannot be determined by its largeness.
-- Ajay Danait
Agile Practitioner, Mentor & Coach
Bengaluru, India
+91-9980841751
|
|
|
RonJeffries
Ron Jeffries
Super Administrator
Posts: 126
Registered: 29 Aug 06
Location: Pinckney, MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: fascinated
|
| posted on 21 Nov 06 at 10:24 AM |
|
|
Ajay ... I'd be interested to hear more about what you say here. In particular, what "definition" of Agile are you thinking of where agility is not
affected by size?
|
|
|
BillRG
Bill Rinko-Gay
Member
Posts: 24
Registered: 09 Nov 06
Location: Boiling Springs, PA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Optimistic
|
| posted on 21 Nov 06 at 10:27 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by ajay.danait
Agile can be scale to any level, provided that it does not break any rules. I feel the agility in a project cannot be determined by its largeness.
|
I have not done any research, but my first book on agile methods coincided with work on a very large project that could have benefitted greatly from
the agile philosophy.
What I saw in this admittedly small sample was that the developers rather naturally used agile methods as best they could while the management, and
especially the Project Management cadre, tried to force-fit the results into a traditional waterfall management scheme.
Considering I was studying agile to maintain my PMP certification I found the dissonance very interesting.
My personal opinion is that agile must be supported all the way up the management chain, and there is good reason for the management chain to support
it. That is, the project alone can't be agile, the organization must be agile. From what I have read and seen, an agile organization is a different
issue than an agile project.
That's why I have expressed an interest in agile QA. Management must have insight and control to do its job. QA makes this possible. But the
issues into which management has insight, and the areas over which management has control, are very different in an agile organization.
Bill Rinko-Gay
Delivery Director
Spherion
|
|
|
RonJeffries
Ron Jeffries
Super Administrator
Posts: 126
Registered: 29 Aug 06
Location: Pinckney, MI
Member Is Offline
Mood: fascinated
|
| posted on 21 Nov 06 at 10:28 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by jeffo
I've heard it said many times, that agile does not work for large projects. I think if agile is to keep advancing, research needs to be done in this
area to find out if agile can be applied to large projects. I am currently taking a graduate level software engineering class, and the assumption is
that xp can not be applied to large projects. This does not seem correct to me, but I have no proof.
So, in my opinion some smarties out there need to show how xp can be applied to very large projects. Or not -- maybe the community does not care
about large projects. |
People often say that agile doesn't work for large projects. People also said that
Man would never fly.
If we look at the XP practices, for example, most of them rather clearly work just fine at any scale. Similarly, not only can large teams do Scrum,
there are many very large teams who are doing it.
I'd be interested in participating in a discussion with some people who (a) understand Agile and (b) have questions about how large projects can be
done that way. Most of the discussions I've heard, the people objecting to agile on large projects haven't accomplished item (a) yet. That troubles
me, and makes me wonder whether "large" is their real objection.
|
|
|
IljaPreuss
Ilja Preuß
Member
Posts: 96
Registered: 05 Sep 06
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Member Is Offline
|
| posted on 23 Nov 06 at 04:07 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by BillRG
My personal opinion is that agile must be supported all the way up the management chain, and there is good reason for the management chain to support
it. That is, the project alone can't be agile, the organization must be agile. |
That sounds a little bit too fatalistic to me.
Sure, management support will make a big difference in how Agile a project can be, and a part of a project being Agile without support from other
parts can cause tension and waste - but it still can be a valid and quite good first step, in my experience.
|
|
|
AndrewMcDonagh
Andrew McDonagh
Member
Posts: 2
Registered: 14 Oct 06
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
|
| posted on 25 Nov 06 at 04:06 PM |
|
|
What is a large project?
I have two Agile teams working at present.
The first has 7 developers and 3 testers, a full time onsite customer and a part time BA to back her up, a Project Manager and my self, as a coach.
The other team has 3 developers, 2 testers, a part-time customer and a part time BA, plus myself as coach.
As someone who's ran multiple agile projects, I find that any team bigger than number one above, can become difficult to work - its like there's too
much noise - too many voices....
The second team is good but feels a little small.
I've also ran a agile project with just myself an another developer an a customer.
I do feel that Agile can scale, but I think its a question of partitioning a large group of people into teams, rather than one huge team working on it
all.
Andrew
|
|
|
RSS Feed
